Celebrating 20 years and comparing mainstream EVs

In this episode of the Autoblog Podcast, Editor-in-Chief Greg Migliore is joined by Senior Editor Jeremy Korzeniewski and Road Test Editor Zac Palmer. It's hard to believe, but Autoblog launched in June 2004, and that means we're celebrating our 20th anniversary. To mark the occasion, our editors singled out the 20 most significant vehicles of the past 20 years. We kick off this week's podcast by talking about the vehicles that make up that exclusive list. From there, we cover some news, starting with the all-new BMW M2. We touch on the sale of the historic Willow Springs race track, discuss what seems to be the impending launch of an SUV from McLaren and briefly touch on Seattle's unfortunate Hellcat problem.

Of course, we talk about the vehicle's we've been driving lately, from the Subaru BRZ to the BMW X5 M60i, on to our first drive of the 2025 Honda Civic Hybrid — spoiler: it's excellent — and our recent comparison of electric crossovers for around the price of an average car in America. We finish up with a short recap of the Canadian Grand Prix and some notes on Indy's recent run through Detroit .

Send us your questions for the Mailbag and Spend My Money at: Podcast@Autoblog.com.

Transcript

Welcome back to the auto blog podcast.

I'm Greg mcleary.

We have an awesome show for you this week, we're gonna celebrate 20 years of auto blog with a list of some of the most significant cars of the last 20 years.

You'll want to stick around for that.

And we'd love to hear perhaps what you think are the most significant cars of the last two decades.

Lots of news this week.

Uh There's New BMW M two Willow is for sale out in California.

I've got a lot of great memories out there.

So that's kind of interesting to me.

There might be a mclaren SUV and a Hellcat is still running loose on the streets of Seattle.

Someone needs to apparently maybe do something about that.

Maybe not, but it's, it's definitely clicky and everybody seems to be interested in it, including the New York Times.

So we're gonna talk about that just a little bit.

Uh We've been driving the Subaru BRZ, the BMW X five M 60 I, our electric vehicle comparison finally has been published.

We have the results and we'd love to tell you about it.

We'll talk about the 2025 Honda Civic Hybrid and a few follow ups on the Porsche 911.

The car close things out with a couple of Motorsports news.

Uh with that, let's jump right in with road test editor Zach Palmer.

How you doing, man?

I am doing great.

20 years here at Auto Blog.

I've been here for five of them.

I know we have someone on the podcast.

So that has been here for a lot more.

Uh So, yeah, this is, this is a cool week, isn't it?

It is.

It really is the uh so I guess that's a nice way if we're doing like cast introductions, we could end with the longest serving uh on a blog, cast member.

What do they usually do with, with or?

And at the end of ensemble casts, that would be senior editor for all things consumer, Jeremy Ks Dusky.

Hello.

All my walker, I believe is in the mail.

Um Turning in my uh I'll be on my 18th year of auto blog uh writing starting in November of this year.

Are you the all time leader in posts?

I am quite, quite indeed the all time leader in posts.

Um It's, it's uh nearing 9000 in the last 18 years, something to that effect.

All right.

There you go.

The all time uh post leader.

That is uh that's Jeremy.

So, uh yeah, obviously, uh you know, hope all you who listen and read the site.

Thank you.

You know, we, uh, we obviously like what we do and we, you know, hope you like it as well.

So, um, you know, with that, let's, uh, let's get on with things here and talk about what's going on in the car world and that is our most significant, uh, cars of the last 20 years.

We just voted on this.

Um, you guys know the results, but were you guys surprised at all by the, say the top one or two or no?

Not by the very top?

No.

Um I was surprised as I continued going down the list to see what, you know, how it was going to shake out like past the obvious three or four.

A lot of it, I think when you're making votes like this and we did this as like a staff where, you know, we did a spreadsheet, people voted, we tallied up scores when you're doing that.

I think there, it's impossible to not have some sort of biases that play in, you know, you've got certain and that's why we, that's why we score things across like the entire staff, you know, so that helps to, you know, elude that, that bias a little bit.

But if you, you know, if you tend to be an environment, environmentally friendly kind of person, you're probably gonna cast votes more for, you know, EBS hybrids, plugins that kind of thing, especially groundbreaking ones.

Um If you are a performance nerd um then you're probably gonna cast your, your boats and like super high performance cars and you know, groundbreaking new, you know, new performance levels, 1000 horsepower, you know, stuff like that.

Um And if you are, you know, more a pragmatic person you're gonna look at like, yeah, this was groundbreaking because it kind of defined its segment, you know, like, oh the first three row crossover that really started selling in huge numbers is obviously going to be very significant.

So when you, when you get past the, the super obvious choices, I think that's where the list really starts to get interesting.

So the list just I'll do the top five here, Tesla Model S one kind of running away with the most boats that we had.

Chevy Volt, Jeep Wrangler, unlimited Porsche Cayenne in the 2005 Mustang.

So obviously, what we were actually doing this podcast before, before we publish the post for some of these, we do need to kind of be a little more precise, you know, about which year and range we're talking about.

But generally speaking, I think all of these were obvious choices and, you know, pretty significant.

So, I mean, what stood out to you there, Zach, I mean, I think uh yeah, it, it was a unanimous model s pick.

Uh There's, I don't think you'll get many arguments at all about what is number one on the list at all?

Um I was uh you know, slightly surprised to see, uh, Wrangler so high up there.

Um, it is in that, uh, sort of mesh between like all of, all of the thirties and whatnot.

I know that personally I didn't vote for it to be, uh, with, within the top five, you know, it was, it was certainly in my top 10.

Um, but I had things like the F 150 Raptor, the Cayenne and the Prius, uh, higher up on my, uh, most significant list among those.

And, uh, I was, I was, I was also a little surprised to not see Prius in, in the top five.

I mean, we, we, we still see those things and like great numbers on, on the roads these days.

And, um, it's, you know, it's not quite as influential as, as the model s is to me, but it is one of those landmark cars, uh that I think really, really did change the landscape as far as hybrids and green driving went and, uh, and yeah, feels, feels like a really high on the list of importance, at least for me.

Yeah.

No, it's, it's a good list.

It is.

Yeah.

You know, I think part of the issue with the Prius is that, um, there was a generation before, um, 20 years and so that probably like in certain people's minds, um I, I'm with you on this for what it's worth.

Zach.

Um The second Gen Prius is, is such a milestone vehicle, but the fact that there was a first Gen Prius is probably what cost it some boats, um which we're not really including the first Gen Prius on this.

Not only because it's outside of our, um you know, 20 years of auto blog, 20 years of vehicles.

Um Purview.

Um But, you know, also it, it was significant in that it was like, you know, the world's first production hybrid unless you, you know, you're, the Honda Insight was right around the same time too.

Um It was the first like mass market one that was actually gonna sell in, in great numbers.

Um But the second gen one is really the landmark.

Um So I guess I'm not super surprised where it landed simply because, you know, there were hybrids before this.

Um, but it's the one that, like, it was the hybrid watershed moment, you know, and so it deserves a spot really high in the list.

Yeah.

No, I, I would agree with that and it's, it's also, it's interesting trying to look through the lens of the last 20 years, a lot to work with.

But also there's a lot of things that really shape, you know, modern transportation like the Prius, they did get their start really more in the nineties versus, you know, the sort of the, the voting criteria that we went off of here.

So, so check out the list.

Um, you know, very, uh I think it's a good way to celebrate 20 years is we certainly had fun doing the, um, the debating and I'm sure there will be more as we put this post together.

Um, you know, just to let everybody know how the sausage is made.

Sometimes we just do editors picks posts, everybody just picks one and we move on with our day.

That's kind of what I thought we do.

But, well, I guess I was wrong because everybody wanted to have this long voting uh elaborate procedure and we let it with, I think a pretty good competitive list where there's some stuff on here that, uh maybe wouldn't have made it.

And I think that's great and certain things were able to kind of get that like staff analysis.

So they were waited and that allowed us to, I think, um, you know, for example, the C A Corvette, which we have currently slotted at number eight, I think is a very significant vehicle.

But I think a lot of people have different takes on, you know, that and the value of, hey, where does a mitt and sports car fit?

So we're able to get some good perspectives.

So uh check out the list.

It's a good list, uh and Happy Birthday to us.

So let's talk some news.

BMW M two Zach, you wrote the story, um, some very pretty pictures.

Uh Why don't you tell us, uh give us an overview of what the new sort of mission is for the M two.

Yeah.

So, uh it's, it's the first refresh.

Uh I mean, a notable one for the M two.

It's, it's weirdly soon after the model was launched, it was completely new for the 2023 model year.

Um, and I guess 11 thing to note is that it's not following the same pattern as the previous M two where it went from an M two to an M two competition to an M two CS.

Uh It's still just called the BMW M two.

but it is more powerful uh for 2025 has 473 horsepower.

Now, instead of the 453 and the automatic uh gets a notable boost uh from 406 feet of torque to 443 feet of torque.

Uh The, the manual is still working with, with the same 406 as before.

Um And those, those are all fine and great.

Um You know, it's, it's slightly quicker, it's 60.

Um But II, I imagine it'll drive right around the same as, as as before, except the automatic being a good bit uh torque here off the line.

Uh The, the, the thing that II, I think what will make a big difference is that you can actually get it in some colors.

Now, uh previously BMW had this thing limited to just seven colors.

Um It was built in the same two series plant in Mexico and wasn't available for BMW S individual program, et cetera, et cetera.

Uh, it's still being built there, but BMW has added 10 different colors to the palette.

Uh, some really cool ones.

You can get it in a green, a purple, uh, a really cool red.

Uh, there's just a lot more options for folks which I think is, you know, it's, it's been like an M car Hallmark for a long time to have like really cool color options.

And well, now you can finally do that with the M two uh as far as interior stuff.

Uh It also has an updated infotainment system.

I drive 8.5 which a it doesn't sound all that important.

Uh All right.

Well, we have created from idrive 8 to 8.5 but in my view, I drive eight was, is really a bit of a downgrade from, from seven usability wise.

It is not great at all trying to go through the climate, the heated seats, the cool seats, et cetera.

Uh I drive 8.5 makes things a lot easier uh based on other BMW S that have driven.

So I think that this makes the M two a much better candidate for, for daily driving, uh just ease of use wise and won't frustrate you from, from a tech perspective.

Um And uh the price really isn't that much more.

It's $1800 more expensive this year um than it was before with the added power, extra entertainment, some more standard features here or there.

Um You know, it's, it's uh it's a nice little refresh nothing.

It's no, it's not a total revamp or anything like that.

Um But uh yeah, I'll, I'll be happy to see more of these M twos and pretty colors and it'll, it would definitely make me uh more likely to buy one now that has all these upgrades.

So sounds good.

Sounds like they stayed the course which uh given some of BMW S recent even mid cycle updates which have been at times controversial.

It sounds like they stayed the course on, you know, for most of this front.

Uh any quick impressions, Jeremy.

Um I mean, not, not really impressions, I would say as far as M two goes, um I have, I've gotten to the point where I actually prefer the smaller M two over the bigger, you know, M three M four platform.

Um Simply because, you know, it's, I, I see those as um very like extreme high performance.

Um Like when I started in this industry, we're talking like supercar levels of performance is what, you know, BMW SMM series.

Um cars are, are at right now.

Um I, I actually wouldn't buy an M two or an M three or an M four.

I like the um the uh upper level um just regular two series coups.

Um They're just like everything is so well balanced.

Um They don't, you know, feel like you're riding a brick.

Um when you're driving the seats don't feel like, you know, medieval torture devices when you're not on a racetrack.

Um So for me, I, I actually go down a level performance for a little bit more driving enjoyment.

Um, personally, but, um, I mean, such so impressive.

Um, like these, I don't know, is it like, get last gasp, um, non electrified, uh, you know, era of performance vehicles?

I don't know exactly.

But, um, it, it sure is impressive where they've gotten with these things.

The M two, I think, uh occupies a real sweet spot for enthusiasts.

Uh It would not fit my current life stage.

Um, but I, I like, you know, where it sits and I can see it being, I mean, I hate to say it almost like, uh a car for like the younger enthusiasts or the older, like the enthusiasts, you know, whatever, um, sort of book ends, different life stages.

But, uh I would think of something, you know, probably larger in the BMW live.

But, uh let's move on to Willow Springs is for sale.

There was a listing that, uh, sort of made the rounds late last week over the weekend.

Uh This is a historic racetrack, I think.

Uh, it opened in the early fifties, I believe 1953.

Uh It was designed after some of just the classic road courses of Europe.

Uh I've been there a few times.

I drove a mclaren 675 long tail, uh Lamborghini, Uan Mustang and Camaro.

And I think I did uh a press trip there although I'm blanking out what exact press trip it was, but just an absolute beautiful.

Of course, it's about an hour, hour and a half north of L A in a city called Rosamund City is a generous term.

It's more like just the middle of nowhere and that's where this track is.

Um sweeping vistas.

You get the view of the different of the elevation changes, the mountains, the terrain.

Uh There's kind of a adjacent track called the Horse Thief Mile, which is basically a movie set.

It's kind of this twisty loop uh at the top end of the property where we've done some track tests up there too, but just a beautiful course.

Um I hope it gets sold um to some will preserve it for what it is.

Uh There was some chatter earlier this week that it sounded like uh like a social media person, influencer type was interested in buying it and preserving it as a track, which I hope is what they would do.

Um I have some more thoughts, but do you guys have any, either memories of Willis Springs or any thoughts here on the outcome?

Start with Uzac?

Yeah.

Uh I've never actually been to the track in person before, but I have uh ran mini laps on Grand Turismo seven and Grand Turismo before it.

Um, you know, running those laps on video games, makes me want to go out there and do it myself because it is a very fun track.

Um, especially that, that super, super long, uh, final sweeper, I guess just one big long carousel of a, of a corner.

Um, but, uh, yeah, no, I, uh, it sounds like you got to, uh, drive some pretty fast stuff out there, which it's a, it's a fast track so it seems like it would be very well suited to it.

Um, so, yeah, I mean, ii I hope that somebody buys it and keeps it going.

Um, because it is, it is a sweet track.

Um, kind of an odd setting out there in the desert with, with the mountains and sand.

But, um, that just makes it more unique and more interesting to me.

You ever been to Willow Germany?

I have, um, but it's actually been a little while.

Um, all my memories of Willow Springs is just like, literally watching like dust devils blow across the track until all the cars start taking, you know, you know, as they go by, they make their own dust.

Um, so, yeah, super cool track.

Um, I remember the original, gosh, I wanna say it was like 1993 need for speed game.

Um, and, you know, like, I think it was like sponsored by Rodent Track.

Or something.

And every time you watch like a little video of, of each car that was on there, it, it started out like the historic Willow Springs racetrack and they had these like dust devils blowing around and like tumbleweeds, blah, blah, blah.

Um, that was my first introduction to the track.

Um, when I was, you know, a teenager, um, getting to race on it for the first couple times.

Um, I mean, not competitive race but you just drive on it.

Um, was super memorable in my career.

Um, and I have a feeling that that someone's gonna buy it.

I the, the scuttle butt that I've heard is that the asking price isn't very high.

2.3 million is one figure I've seen, I've seen, I've seen that too.

My, I mean, for, for that price, like my guess is that might be like opening bid price.

I would, I would expect it to go higher than that.

I don't know.

Um, just the, the history of it.

Um, let's be honest, there's a lot of people who dropped $2.3 million on a car that's gonna sit in a garage for forever if they could, you know, spend that money on, um, on a historic racetrack and maybe even build a little museum on it or something like there's already like, you know, stuff there.

But, um, I think it'll, it's gonna survive like, I don't think it's gonna disappear off the off the, um, off the radar entirely.

I hope that someone doesn't buy it and just completely privatize it.

Um, you know, because it, I mean, private, it is a private race track.

It's, it's not like, you know, the ner r where you go out, it's like public roads.

But, um, I hope that they, they keep it, um, operating in some level that, you know, it's still accessible to people to, to actually go out and experience.

Yeah, Ken Miles actually had a hand in the, uh, the start of the track in the fifties.

Uh, it's been used for a million commercials.

Uh, when I was out there, Lexus had just finished shooting something performance oriented as you would imagine.

Uh, four verse Ferrari, I believe they did some shooting there.

Um, one of the great things about the track and you probably remember this Jeremy for being out there is, it's pretty darn close to what it was in the early fifties.

And I'll make kind of a weird comparison but there's a very old golf course in, uh, by the Detroit Zoo called Rackam.

And it dates to the 19 twenties and they've done almost nothing to it in the last 100 years.

So, when you could, except for a slight alteration in the eighties, but when you go into it, it's about the same as it was in 1924.

And that's kind of how this track is.

That's how it was in 1953.

Could it, could they boo it up, make it like a car country club?

Sure could.

They probably do that with his golf course probably.

But it's kind of cool that they don't because it's in some of it is clearly lack of funds and, you know, business plans and all that.

But just as like somebody who's been to places like this, I like that.

Survivor on restored fee.

And I think that's part of Willow's charm.

It really is a step back in time.

That's still very contemporary and usable.

Yeah.

And it's not like, it's not like tracks like kota don't exist where, you know, there's like a mile of run off in every direction and, you know, huge grandstands everywhere and, you know, press boxes and huge towers to watch the races from, you know, it's not like super modern.

Um, almost like, uh, you know, committee designed racetracks don't exist.

They're everywhere.

Um, Willow is, is one of those cool ones that's like, yeah, this is how they used to do it, you know, and to be able to go out and, and experience like, you know, the glory days of, um, of fifties, sixties, seventies racing.

Um, and, and track layout.

Um, that's pretty cool.

Yeah, you gotta, you gotta see what you can play and, um, you know, in some of the different racing games too, like Grand Turismo.

Um, yeah, the Horse Thief Mile is also, it's part of the thing, like I said, you got, if you're out there and you have an opportunity to try it, try all the different configurations as well because it's big willow, little willow horse thief.

It's all pretty cool.

And, um, yeah, so we'll see where it goes.

One thing I think in the preservationists favor is it is in the middle of nowhere, unlike some tracks and golf courses and other things where it'd be great to rip them down and put in a bunch of like mcmansions.

You're probably not to do that on the middle of the desert.

Like there was, maybe, is like in some sort of air base out there.

I mean, it's remote, like, you know, you like, again, the, the air force is out there because they don't want you to, you know, be, you know, in working on what they're doing.

So it's, I think it's, there's a good shot, it'll stay at track.

So, uh, one guy actually asked me out there if I was a flyer, which I took as a compliment.

Um, so that was cool.

So we'll close with that and talk about mclaren.

Uh, rumblings are, they might do an SUV.

Um, you guys think they should, I definitely think that they should.

Um, it, uh, I mean mclaren has struggled here.

It seems like for quite a long time, uh, trying to gain traction, remain profitable and, uh, the number one thing to, uh, to help that out would be probably to build an SUV.

Uh Ferrari has, has finally gone to it with the very expensive V 12 Puro San.

Um, the targets that they're talking about here, like right around 3300.

Um, that would be quite the SUV, uh, if, if they're able to get close to a target like that.

Um, and uh, they could charge an arm and a leg for it.

So, yeah, I think that if mclaren built one, they would sell it.

Um So long as they're able to execute it, um They, I think they have to focus a little more on the tech uh the luxury side of things than they do currently with most of their cars because uh they're fairly bare bones and uh you know, very, very directed toward the enthusiast and they, they just might need to uh just consider the fact that it won't be the same buyer, uh who's looking to go buy like a 765 Lt that is trying to pick up a mclaren SUV.

I think that's 100% on right there.

Is the whole point of doing an SUV is to get more buyers into your lineup.

You, I don't know any brand that is attempted, let alone be successful, just trying to directly build, am like a mclaren SUV.

So they do need to grow, I think as a company to accomplish that and that's where like when we were talking about the most significant cars.

The last 20 years, the 12 C came on there because, you know mclaren was basically a racing and design firm.

And then boom, they're making cars like one day out of the blue Jeremy.

You probably remember this around like 1011.

It was a really big moment that they were back making road cars to make something.

Now, granted making like a, basically a street legal race car that's tremendous, but it's also pretty much what they know how to do.

I question if they know how to make an SUV.

So do I think they should do it?

Yes, but I'm a little skeptical they could pull off something totally credible.

But thoughts JK, yes, I do remember.

I was the one who nominated the, uh, 12 C on our, um, on our 20 list.

Um, I don't have, I don't have anything to add past what you guys, uh, have already said.

Um, I think you've covered it.

Well, um, I think it's obvious that they should do it.

Um One of the reasons being if you read our report on it, um, you know, as, as storied of a name and as mclaren is especially on the racing side, but now more and more on the road going side, they are losing a lot of money.

Um, and, you know, if they, if they want to maintain their status as a going concern, um, they're gonna have to make these super cars that the extremely wealthy clientele is willing to buy.

Um The history has shown recent history has shown that um suvs fit that bill.

Um Kudos to Zack for uh rolling out Perros way in a way that uh sounds so much better than uh my lips are able to pronounce that.

Um Hopefully mclaren can come up with some sort of uh name that is uh pronounceable.

Um So, yeah, I mean, I think they should totally do it.

Um, I think your concerns are valid Greg that, um, do they have the internal know how, um, maybe not, but it's probably hirable.

Um, and you know, why, why wouldn't they, it's not like their main competition from, um, you know, from Lamborghini and Ferrari, uh, et cetera isn't also doing the same thing.

Lotus is, is going down that path.

Um, if you, you know, look outside the, the performance realm but just like super expensive realm rolls Royce, um, obviously Bentley did this a long time ago with the bete.

Um, I think at this point it's, it's more, it would be, it would be more strange for them to say.

Yeah, we're absolutely not gonna do it.

Um, and also mclaren doesn't have the ability like Ferrari to deny that they're doing it forever and ever and ever, and then when they do it, you're like, well, of course you did, um, you know, mclaren doesn't quite have that, you know, same level of um, you know, customers, customers will forgive them for anything.

Um As long as they think the end product is fine.

So, yes, mclaren should be working in SUV.

Um, and no surprise that they are all right.

So there's a hellcat roaming the streets of Seattle.

Uh, we did the story last week almost two weeks ago.

By the time you guys are listening to this at first, it seemed kind of like a novelty of Clickbait sort of thing making their rounds on socials.

Then lo and behold, the New York Times did a big long feature on it as have many other very mainstream, um you know, blue blooded outlets.

So I've been a little surprised at the pickup.

Um When I look at this, my thought is like, I don't really care about the noise.

I mean, I don't know, come to Woodward Avenue in August and we'll tell you what noise really sounds like, but it's a little concerning just how fast this dude's going um through a downtown area.

And I don't think a little, I think it sounds kind of crazy.

I'm frankly surprised they haven't, you know, nabbed him or something, you know, and done something to really put a stop to that because it would seem like you have a pretty good idea of when he's going out and about maybe get some choppers scramble some, you know, patrols and if the dudes hitting triple digits go get them, I don't know, I mean, to me that's more of a safety issue.

Um, you know, otherwise have fun with your cars.

Just gotta do it in a safe manner.

You know, Jeremy start with you.

You used to live in Seattle.

What do you make of this?

Uh, it's terrible.

I mean, I like how I'm an automotive enthusiast.

I get buying a sweet car and wanting to go out and, and, um, and enjoy it, experience it, um, have fun with it.

Show it off to your friends.

Um, you know, I, that makes total sense to me.

Um, I, you know, I was a kid at one point, you know, lo long ago, um, and, you know, I had some fast cars.

I bought a brand new Rx eight and 04. you know, I had, I've had plenty of muscle cars.

Um, and, you know, you find some country road, you do some burnouts, you do all these things, you know, blah, blah, blah.

I used to even talk to the police every once in a while and, and say like, hey, if I go out to so and so road and, you know, do some 0 to 60 runs just for fun and they're like, just don't, you know, don't crash.

Um, I get the, the having fun with your, with your cool cars.

You absolutely shouldn't have been doing that in downtown Seattle.

Um, you know, I, having lived there, um, there's homeless people, uh, all over the streets, um, on, on sidewalks, all around.

If you do it in the middle of the night, if you don't do it in the middle of the night, um, there's tons of tourists and people who just, you know, have the misfortune of living there while you are blasting down at 100 and five miles an hour.

Um, that is really dumb.

It's just really, really dumb.

Um, it, it's not just inconsiderate, it's extremely dangerous.

Um, not the right spot and it's not as if there aren't places that someone who can afford a 80 $85,000 hellcat.

Um, there, there's not, it's not like there aren't places that you can enjoy the speed, um, and the power of a car like that.

Um, having lived there, I know that there are available race tracks, um, there's available back roads, there's plenty of, of spaces where it's more appropriate to, uh, do this than, um, than downtown Seattle.

Um, so please just stop there.

Like, don't, don't do this.

You, you've got some sort of, you know, social media fame, no notoriety at this point.

Um, I would love to see, you know, I'd love to see the guy continue on his, you know, whatever level of success that he's looking for.

Just please do so in a more respectful and, uh, not as dangerous manner.

Any thoughts there, Zach.

Yeah.

So I was, I was gonna go after the, uh, the whole racetrack.

I mean, I feel like we've, we've been talking a lot about racetracks here.

Um, there's a, there's a great one in Seattle.

Uh, it's called The Ridge, um, nearby.

I, uh, I was on that man a few years ago.

Uh, that's, that's the place to enjoy a car like this.

I know that, uh, I mean, places like Banda, I mean, they, they use Hellcats as like this, the, uh, cars that people learn on at the, at the driving school and whatnot.

So, I mean, if you really want to use like all 707 7, 17, 7, 97 however much horsepower your Hellcat has, whether it's a red eye or a refresh, et cetera.

I mean, that's, that's the place to do it.

It's, it's, it's definitely not Seattle because yeah, I've seen some of the videos uh reaching 100 plus uh rolling through downtown Seattle is not ok.

Uh In, in the uh the strongest terms.

So yeah, go find a racetrack.

That's, that's what I tell.

Pretty much anyone that I see, you know, speeding, whether it be downtown city streets on the highway wherever, like it's never worth it, ever, ever, ever.

It's never much fun that you might be deriving from it is it's probably gonna end, end badly eventually.

So, yeah, uh you know, on a personal note, I'll just give this one little quip.

Um, a good friend of mine growing up, bought a um mid nineties Ramer, um, Firebird formula and he crashed it while street racing.

A mustang, um, ended up in the emergency room himself.

Um, the, the mustang or, excuse me, he, um, the, the mustang drove off and never to be seen again.

But, um, he ended up losing control, hitting another car that was parked on the side of the street, breaking the guy's leg in a couple in a couple points.

Um, that's, that's what happens.

Um, when you do this stuff, you know, you're not just, you're not just endangering your own life, you're endangering other people's lives.

Um, the fact that they're, you know, kind of getting on a noise charge, um, seems, you know, relatively inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.

But, um, if that's what it takes to get him off the, you know, street doing that, um, I'm all for hitting him with noise complaint, warnings and fines and whatnot.

Um, just, you know, you're young, you don't realize the consequences of your actions sometimes.

Just please stop doing this.

All right.

Let's, uh, move on over to a more happy segment.

Uh, let's talk about some of the cars we've been driving.

We've had some good ones.

The Subaru BRZ.

I thought it was a lot of fun.

Uh, Zach, you and I both, I believe we're in that this week.

It's on our list a little farther towards the bottom of the, uh, it's in the top 10 of the most significant cars of the last 20 years.

And I would agree that, you know, really it was and it is a puristic sports car uh where the engagement um is why you buy this car.

I know automotive enthusiasts journalists in particular love this thing because of the chassis, the steering, the six speed manual, the styling I think is classic, like 67 sports car, uh minimalistic proportion.

It goes back to things like, you know, great Porsches of that time period, like the lotus Alan.

Um, you know, I guess I'm really giving some high praise here but I enjoyed, you know, my night in it got a lot of attention.

People were, I've driven a BRZ before I've driven the 86 the Scion FRS, remember that thing.

Uh They're all basically the same thing but it's, uh, it's rough but it's also a lot of fun to drive.

It's as an enthusiast, I think, uh this is something that you would probably want to put in your garage if given the opportunity and, you know, the, the amount of time I guess to make good use of it.

So I had a great time with it.

I would still recommend it as far as, you know, enthusiasts.

If you're looking for something, just go into it and know its little course and, you know, I, I liked it a lot.

Yeah, I, you know, I, I want to be surprised if the attention was because of the uh TS badges on, on the front and back.

Since this, this was, yeah, since this, this was the beer ZTS that we had.

Um which is, I mean, it's, it's not quite the same like track focused ts that the previous generation be RZ was uh but it is like a range topper with every performance goodie uh that uh sub can throw at it.

Um I was an especially big fan of the Hitachi shocks that are on this thing.

Uh Now the, the, the regular beer ZGR 86 is a fairly stiff riding vehicle.

This one is two, but these uh these new shocks I think give it a more comfortable ride and more control.

Uh So I was, I was pretty impressed by uh what uh Subaru did with, with this package here.

Uh brakes, also notable upgrade.

It's got the uh four piston Brembo in front, two piston Brembo in rear, uh very reassuring a lot better than uh just the uh regular uh floating piston brakes and um the floating caliper brakes and the uh regular BRZ.

Um So yeah, those just, just those two nice little things, a little suspension, a little break, uh made this a more special BRZ.

And uh I mean, if, if you can afford it over just the standard one, I would definitely recommend going to get the Ts honestly.

Uh It's a, it's a nice little upgrade.

Yeah, I agree.

I think it's uh Subaru has done a nice job of keeping this car, um, you know, reasonably updated.

Uh It's again definitely something for enthusiasts.

Um, I think to consider it's good value.

It's a lot of fun.

And, um, you know, you've got the BRZ, you've got the 86 and there's not a lot of other things out there at this price point.

Um, that really offer this degree of interaction.

It's even a bit of an old school vibe.

So, uh yeah, it was a good, you know, good way to kick off summer.

I drove around, uh the last few weeks, I've been driving with these long sort of midwest summer nights.

You can drive till 10 o'clock at night and it's still somewhat light up.

Took that thing out for a cruise.

I took the 718 box row for a cruise, the 911 D Caro for a cruise.

It's kind of, I've been spending my Wednesday nights, which is a hell of a good time.

So let's shift gears over to the uh something for BMW.

Uh The top of my sticker says this is the ultimate driving machine.

I don't know if I'd say that totally applies to the BMW X five M 60.

I, but it's uh it was very fast, SU va 100 almost $6000 very powerful.

It was a beautiful car scheme.

Um Great British racing green.

Multiple people asked me about the color you can't go wrong.

With British racing green saddle, brown interior and then just, it's a, you know, a powerful M 60 powerful V eight.

It's actually been a minute since I have driven a V eight SUV.

Like this.

I try to remember the last one I did, but, you know, it sounded good.

It was somewhat subtle.

Uh, I tend to think if I were looking for an X five or an M thing, I wouldn't, whatever thing that might be, this wouldn't be my flavor of Brandy.

But, uh, I mean, it's, it's pretty nice.

So, I know you had a night, Miss Zach.

What do you think?

Yeah.

Um, maybe it's not your flavor of Brandy, but I honestly, I think that, uh, this is like my sweet spot for the X five lineup.

Um, I'm not a huge fan of the M competition.

It's a little too stiff, a little too hard core.

It's just, it's a little too much m, I think for a big family SUV, the M 60 I though, uh, really, really dials the suspension back a good bit.

It's very comfortable wherever you take it, you're not getting punished over Michigan Roads and you still have a 4.4 L twin Turbo V eight that is like really, really quick, uh, uh, when you get on it, um, the styling is, you know, it's not too ostentatious.

It's, it's sort of paired back of it.

You know, you still have some M logos here and there, but it doesn't have a, a wing on the back or an aggressive spoiler 22 inch wheels.

It's, it's just, you know, the medium spice spec of, of the X five lineup and you know, it's, it's still really, really good handling.

Uh I love that engine so much.

The transmission is super snappy.

Um And uh yeah, II I think, you know, if, if, if you're looking for a daily that has a V eight, yeah, I mean, I, I would skip the X five MC and just go to this one because I think that you're gonna be much happier in the long run with, with the M six D I.

And um I guess the last note, uh it, it does now have a 48 volt mild hybrid power train for this year uh which makes it like super smooth, the start stop system, which so I, I drove the pre refresh one and it was like, it, it, it honestly does make a big difference having that electric boost uh torque right at the start.

Um So yeah, high high marks for this car.

Um I, I'm a big fan of the M 60 I tr yeah, very solid.

I think it's um one of the better overall power trains I have tested in a while just for all the points you make.

It was very well executed.

And um this is gonna sound crazy, but I actually thought the value was very much there in abundance for 100 and $6000 BMW X five.

just the pricing scales have changed so much, especially in the last 34 years that, you know, I expected an M set up X five with all this power and a very nice interior to cost us much money.

So it seemed like, you know, the value was there in Spades and um looking at the option box, there's the biggest single option was British racing Green.

Uh followed by the driver assistance pack and then very closely at just under $2000 was the coffee extended Merino Leather $7000 for a SUV to look like this all day.

I think uh you know, it all adds up plus that V eight is a gem.

You know, the value is not actually that bad, like you said, Greg.

Um I did a little, I heard the 106 and I was like, well, that's pricey and I did a little bit of searching while you guys are talking about it.

It's, it's, it's on par.

It's what you expect to pay.

Um or you could wait two years and buy it certified pre owned at a, you know, one third discount.

Um still with, still with the big warranty.

Um And uh yeah, I think that's probably the direction I would go.

All right.

So let's uh move along to the ev comparison.

Uh check this out it went up, uh last week.

This is where we, uh tried to rate and evaluate and test the most affordable, the best, most affordable um, electric vehicles.

And we worked around the starting price point of about $45,000 because that is the, you know, ballpark average price of a new vehicle on sale in the United States.

Uh, Zach, you kind of ran quarterback on this test.

Uh Jeremy, we were able to drive up from Columbus and um you know, obviously as a Tesla owner, it was good to have that type of perspective.

Uh Zach, why don't you do the overview, just what we tested and real quick, what we didn't test?

Yeah.

So, like you said off the top, uh we sort of put a number out there about $45,000 is the uh point of entry for it.

Um Hoping to gather a large group of, of evs together that uh sort of represents the field as a whole.

Um So we ended up with the uh the model Y long range uh which we actually rented from Tyro uh Volkswagen ID four Pro Hyundai, Kona Electric and a Kia Nero ev.

Uh We invited a number of others uh such as Mustang Maki Ionic five Kia ev six Nissan Aria.

Uh Arguably some of those probably would have done pretty well in the test.

Um But the automakers either elected to send us other cars or just declined in general uh for, for the test.

Um So, no, we, we ended up with those, those initial four that I mentioned there.

Um So value was, was definitely one of the, uh the bigger uh targets for this test.

You know, what, which of these evs give you the most for your around $45,000.

Uh Some of them had the federal ev tax credit of $7500 helping them out.

Some of them did not.

Uh the winner of the test being the Tesla Model Y.

Uh you can go check that out on auto blog.

All of the reasons as to why it came in first place.

Uh does have the federal EV tax credit, which, which definitely helps the value out a lot uh Because it just ended up being a little bit too much car for the rest of them.

Uh The ID four also got that tax credit.

Um But uh just overall from, from a performance, a charging a space utility perspective and even style.

Um the model Y was just the uh the clear winner amongst this group.

Uh It was not universal.

Um I will say that, you know, there, there were um you know, some really close votes between it and the ID four.

Uh It only won by one point actually.

So Kudos to the Volkswagen there for a very, very close second place.

Uh Both the Nero and the Kona came in sort of a distant 3rd and 4th.

But uh yeah, the Tesla Model Y was our winner and uh I think a deserving one at that.

I was a little surprised how close it was.

Um You know, this inevitably, this happens with our comparisons, they come down to like one point or five or fewer points or something.

So it um I was a little surprised how close it was going into it.

I kind of thought the Volkswagen might win just based on the overall sort of excellence that it offered and I thought the Tesla might be polarizing.

But um I think both things held true and the Tesla still won.

Uh I think when you look at the value the styling and just the range and power, it makes total sense why we, you know, awarded the Tesla the win, I think.

Um But, you know, I think, you know, it would have been interesting to see if a few other carmakers would have showed up as well that might have also flipped the field.

So, uh Jeremy, I know you put aside your Tesla ownership in this as you always do, but uh you did bring a unique um perspective to this.

So how do you feel about this event?

Um The Tesla is very polarizing um when you're, when you're looking at score sheets, um you know, it's, it's different when you're testing a car versus you're spending your own money.

Um You're, you're literally giving advice to people when you're testing a car and doing a comparison like this.

So, you know, feelings about the brand, feeling about, um you know, feelings about its very enigmatic.

Um CEO get put aside when you are um when you are filling out a score sheet, um there's no, you know, there's no line item for how do you feel about Elon Musk.

Um So, you know, if you, if you're listening to this and you're like, oh God, I, I could never buy a Tesla.

We, we get that, you know, everyone understands, you know, the opinions or if you're like, I would only ever buy a Tesla because I love um Musk also, you know, you vote with your own money.

Um So that kind of goes away when you are um when you're like doing comparisons like this.

So if that's what you're thinking as you're listening to this segment, um just know that, that, you know, that kind of thing doesn't end up playing into the scoring um outside of, of personal biases of the um of the, the scores.

Um When you put it down on paper, it's actually a little bit surprising to me that the model y only one by one point um simply because the range, the performance, the charging the size, the price, like you put it all all down, it's an extremely compelling package.

Um after driving them, um I get, I get a lot more of the reasons why someone would not choose the Tesla.

Um The I I own a model three and I can tell you the model three is much more, is much quieter inside.

It feels a little bit more refined.

The model Y with its big hatch um open area and I have to guess a little bit less rigidity due to the lack of the um you know, the rear seat uh bulkhead area.

Um I was surprised the model Y was as boomy as it was inside.

Um a little bit rattly uh over bumps, um that you, that I don't experience for my own personal model three.

Also our test car was, um, you know, we had to get it off Toro because Tesla doesn't give out um vehicles for comparison tests like this.

So, um you know, who knows how the, the thing was driven?

Maybe, you know, I, I have some friends with model wise that aren't quite as gloomy inside.

Um Anyway, I was actually going into the test.

Um The last time I drove a um uh Volkswagen 94 I, I walked away, not super impressed by it.

Um The changes that they made for 2024 are, you know, seemingly small on paper but extremely impactful in the real world.

Um I like the ID four in its latest generation or, or latest refresh, much, much better than I like the first edition.

Um It my biggest complaints with the ID four and the reason why the Tesla came out tops on my own personal scorecard.

The, the Volkswagen has some really odd low speed sensations while it's driving.

Um, very strange, like body motions swivels like, you know, just, I don't know, some, some strange wiggles that I wasn't the only person, um, to comment on, um, once you're underway that goes away and, um, but it, it's hard to forget, you know, why you're, why you're sitting in traffic and driving it.

Um Also the uh as much as, you know, I hate the fact that Tesla, um even as an owner puts everything on the center display, it is more intuitive still and preferable, in my opinion, to Volkswagen system that really needs, in my opinion, a very thorough revamp um to, you know, to, to get rid of that as a demerit um in, in scoring.

So, um I was, I guess my takeaway was, I was surprised at how competitive the Volkswagen was compared to the Tesla um after driving them back and forth, um I expected it to not perform particularly well, but was pleasantly surprised by how much I actually did like this latest version.

They both of those vehicles were kind of head and shoulders above the Nero and the Kona uh which while Strong evs um you know, both of their brands make stronger entries.

Uh So, so it goes, but Jack, why don't you take us through any other thoughts here about the test and, uh, your observations about how it all went down.

Yeah.

No.

So, like, uh, like you're saying there, Jeremy, the ID four was, was a bit of a surprise.

Um, this was my first time actually driving an ID Four.

and I, I think that I liked it, you know, slightly more than, than most folks.

I did have my quibbles about how it drove, uh, the brakes themselves probably, you know, some of my, uh most annoying uh issues with it.

Um But, uh, I mean, the car that I thought should have won did in fact, win being the model Y um I think we, we had a, a very comprehensive score sheet that, you know, went over everything from interior storage to performance to the charging network, uh to the actual charging performance.

How fast does, does it actually charge, um, to the utility?

Um I mean, pretty much anything that, uh, you know, some, some buyer might be looking for.

We, uh, we went and scored and went through it all and, uh, yeah, just, just the actual closeness between the model Y and, and the ID four I think was, was one of the most surprising takeaways for most of us at, at the end of the day.

Um And, uh, I guess, like I also noted if, if, if we had had things like perhaps the Chevy Equinox EV or the EV six.

and, uh, we actually wrote a follow up uh Green Electric editor, uh John Snyder wrote a, a uh the winner that could have been post.

Um We had an ionic six on hand at the same time that did not qualify because it was uh much more expensive than, than the rest of the field.

Um But just having driven it, you know, looking at the feature set, what uh the E GMP cars have to offer.

Um I, I think that there was a good chance that uh you know, if an ionic five or an EV six had actually been in the test, uh that one of those vehicles would have taken the kick.

And uh just because it, it, it excels in some of the areas that the Tesla really lacks in such as just general refinement.

Uh and it also uh charges right on par with it as, as as well.

It obviously doesn't have the Tesla supercharger network as, as a massive plus, but you can get to an electrify America or EB go and be out of there in about 15 minutes.

Um which is about what you can do in a model Y as well.

So, yeah, a lot of fun doing this test.

Um I think uh what we're gonna have a very interesting field.

Uh the, the next time that we do something like this just because there are constantly so many new evs coming out.

Um And uh and yeah, good times and congrats to the model Y for uh the W I think this is round one of our ev comparison because I think just all the vehicles you mentioned the equinox, the blazer.

Uh, you know, and some of these to be fair, it's not like car companies wouldn't make them available, they weren't available in the price point we were looking for.

So, um, you know, that's a situation where I think as the consumer, you'll run into the same situation, you know, you might want a Mackie, but you can't find one in the trim and you know, the price point and that's what we're going for here.

So go ahead, Jeremy.

I, I was just gonna make a just real quick point.

Um I don't think it's surprising that our top our most, you know, our, our ideal evs were all built from the ground up as, as evs.

Um they not, you know, in this price point, they, they are not sharing um platforms with vehicles also powered by internal combustion.

I think that makes a really big difference on the um you know, the structure and the success overall success of a vehicle.

Um Also, if you're shopping for an ionic um a Hyundai, just know that if you do get the six, it has limo like rear leg space, but like mini, like rear headspace.

So, you know, you have to be a very certain shape if you're going to use that backseat.

Um obviously the ionic five would solve that issue.

It doesn't have that sloping rear roof line.

All right.

So check out the full test, we have the story, we have the videos we have the sidebar from John.

Uh check this all out, you can find it on our website.

It's very comprehensive.

And again, I think uh this is wrong one.

I look forward to testing more of these uh at this price point Uh as the field grows, uh We think uh the EV market, it's kind of plateaued at about maybe 8% this year, but I've seen some projections that it might get to like 12% of new car sales.

So we'll see if that happens, but a lot of that will be product driven.

So uh let's leave it there and Jeremy while you have the mic, tell us about this new Honda Civic hybrid that you drove in Quebec, one of my favorite places in North America Montreal.

That's right.

Yeah, Montreal is a um it's a great city.

Um When you are confined to um you know, just a few hours of Montreal, you've got to go out searching a little bit to get through traffic um and find uh nice roads to drive on.

Um However, the uh I was there for the Grand Prix as well and it was awesome.

Um So the Honda Civic Hybrid, um I have nearly nothing bad to say about this vehicle.

Um It immediately Vaulted.

Um, I mean, the Civic was already one of my top choices as a compact.

Um, but this new, um, hybrid version in particular, um, nothing is flawless.

Nothing is without fault, but this is about as close to the ideal compact car.

Um, that I think you're gonna find, um, when you look at, uh, cost of entry, it is, um, even maxed out it's $10,000 less than the average price of a new car in America.

Um And, you know, people, you know, compact cars have a little bit of a stigma in the United States is not being big enough.

It is, it's big enough.

Um It, I mean, if you are a family of basketball players, it's not big enough.

But if you are just, you know, normal size people, it is perfectly acceptable.

Um, trunk space is like equal to the, you know, ford tourists that I grew up, you know, packing six people into um as a, as a family, um extremely well behaved power training.

Um They have like really nailed this hybrid system.

Um I kind of wish it had more battery capacity so that, you know, it did have some, you know, uh potential for ed only driving.

Um, throw a plug on, it would be awesome.

That would obviously raise the price.

Um So just no complaints, like no, no meaningful ones that would, that would dissuade me from saying to someone, yeah, go, go check, go check this car out.

It'd be my first choice um for a brand new daily driver sedan in, in the United States.

I think bringing back the hybrid is a brilliant move.

I feel myself already recommending this car to people as a sort of a Swiss army knife of um you know, car that would fit a variety of purposes.

The price is just killer.

I think that's uh Honda is one of the original value players and the Civic really underpins that.

So, um yeah, I mean, how is the interior?

I know one of the few things we've sort of, you know, hit the, the Civic four over the years is the interior has been up and down, you know, you might remember was the 2012 11 interior was just terrible.

They like new tiered instruments.

So how's the new one?

Um You know what?

It's uh it, I think it strikes the right balance between um usable and stylish um like everything.

Like the, the big problem with the dual tiered thing is that, um you know, it wasn't always easy to see what, you know, is super easy, super necessary for you to have.

Um one of my very good friends when um around that time had a brand new one and I, I drove it a lot, I wrote in it a lot.

Um And the interior was just too avant garde for its own good.

Um If this is not like that at all.

Everything is easy to reach, um, easy to see, easy to use.

There's just enough style, um, to make it not look boring.

Um, it's not just a sea of black plastic they hunt has done this really interesting thing and in its most recent generation of um, uh passenger vehicles where they're putting kind of this like grid work down the center of it that, um, integrates the uh HV AC um uh vents.

Um That is a really interesting, uh interesting thing to look at.

Um The infotainment screen is significantly better than it was in the previous um pre recycle or pre refresh.

Um It's now using Google built in um and is very easy to use.

Uh The model I had was the sport turing hybrid.

It had the digital instrument cluster.

Um I don't feel like that's strictly necessary, to be honest.

Um The, the gauge cluster would be fine but to get the infotainment, um you have to get the sport hybrid turing, um or sport turing hybrid.

That is what I would recommend uh to most buyers to get the hybrid power train and the um the nicer infotainment um and still low thirties maxed out around $35,000.

Um I can't think of a better car at that price point than the uh 2025 Civic Sport Touring hybrid.

Sounds good.

So we'll put a pin here in Montreal for a minute.

Let's close out the drive section here with uh one more hit on the Porsche 911, Dar, which Byron and I riffed on last week.

Uh But Zach, you also spent some time in it.

Uh We should note that the seats are a little more adjustable than we maybe hinted at before.

There's a switch there which can make it a little bit more comfortable, still a little bit of a dicey situation getting in and out.

Uh, but, you know, you do have some flexibility there.

Uh, but what did you do with this thing besides, were you the one who dropped it off for me?

I'm trying to remember.

You picked it up from me.

So, did you go off roading?

What did you do with this beast?

Yeah, man.

So I, I hit some, some dirt roads that I'm pretty familiar with down sort of south of south of Ann Arbor in the, uh, Saline area, uh, and just drove it all over Michigan highways, Woodward, like just driving it like you would a normal daily driver almost.

Uh, and I sort of came to the conclusion that, you know, if I was a very wealthy person, I would want to daily drive this vehicle.

It, it genuinely feels like the most perfect Michigan, uh, sports car slash daily driver all in one, uh, the lift, the all terrain tires, uh, you know, you can sort of drive it like it's a Honda CRV or whatever, like you don't have to worry about scraping on anything.

Uh You can just run over massive potholes, whatever and the 911 just soaks it up and goes on with life.

But then at the same time you got yourself a 911 power train, uh which is, and it's also the, the GTs power train.

So a lot of horsepower, super snappy, great PDK.

Um And uh it's, it's honestly even more playful than a normal 911 just because it has those all terrains on it.

Uh So a more active rear end.

Um And uh man, it is, I I'm pretty sure that this, this is easily the most fun that I've had in a 911.

Um and I've, I've driven the GT three various other versions of, of the Carrera, a couple older ones.

Um And uh yeah, nothing, nothing has topped.

Uh this, I don't think for me.

Uh I guess it's sort of like I said off the top.

If I could afford one, I would have one which is about the highest praise that I think that most of us can, can hand to a car.

It's the most expensive 911 I've ever driven.

I believe the sticker was over 200 to 20 somewhere in there, but it also was one of the, I think the most confident uh because just the, the visibility was outstanding, you know, I mean, I love driving low sports cars that are, you know, all the great, you know, suspension setups and things that sports car makers do to make them, you know, hugging the road and intense.

But you're driving 911 that's got that much ride height and all that power.

It's, I just felt so confident.

It was, it required so much mental recalibration.

So I really like that about it as well.

Um We got some more great coverage coming up on this thing.

It's um you know, it's definitely a bit of a unicorn.

Uh And then coming up, we'll talk about this on the podcast and write plenty of things.

The strato the Lambeau, the off-road Lambeau is going to be gracing our driveways in the coming weeks as well.

So that's gonna be fun.

Um All right.

So let's throw things back over to you.

We'll close out this podcast, not just this segment of the show with some motor sports.

Jeremy.

You went to the Canadian Grand Prix, which is definitely on my bucket list and it's a fairly low level bucket list thing.

Montreal is like an hour and a half flight.

It's I, I really need to do this.

So tell me how was it?

Did you have some poutine and other Canadian some La Bat Blue or Molson, I guess in Quebec.

Um How was it?

It's a formula one race.

So there's no beer available other than Heineken.

Uh Yes, of course.

Yes.

He Heineken Silver and stuff too, right.

Oh, yeah.

You, you want a beer?

Do you want the no alcohol Heineken or the alcoholic Heineken that usually like he?

Yeah, it's ok. Um, yeah, it was, uh, and I mean, it was an awesome event if I'm being honest.

Um, really, really enjoyed it.

Um, the on track action.

Um, I have two points to make about, um, and I'll try to keep it quick.

The first one is that they really know what they're doing.

They've been doing this for a really long time.

Um They, you know, people know the track, they know the layout really well.

They, um, you know, the, the, the location of everything is, is really well thought out.

And, um, I guess the best way to say is mature.

Um, the last uh Grand Prix I went to was in Vegas, which was a first year event and mature would be the last adjective you use to describe it.

So, um, that was a really interesting, um, contrast.

Um, the weather was uh poor for watching the race but really exciting for the, um, on track action and what it, um, what it caused the teams to do.

Um There was on track passing, there was pit passing, there was um, strategies involved with what tires to use.

Um, at one point they sent, uh Ferrari sent Charles Le Claire out um with uh slicks, um, which was exactly as disastrous as everyone uh who gasped when he left the pits thought it was going to be, um, and he ended up retiring shortly thereafter.

Um, just a lot to, a lot to focus on, um, an extremely exciting eventful race to watch live in person.

Um, and the podium was super cool.

Um, we had, uh, a Red Bull, a, uh mclaren and a Mercedes all on the podium, um, which is about as fun, um, of a result as you're gonna, as you're gonna get, it's a fun race.

I made it my business to try to watch uh as much of it as I could.

The rain made it interesting.

It's a beautiful circuit.

We talked about European inspired circuits.

Uh This one which dates back to the early sixties.

I think there is some parallels between this, there's another one in Quebec called Montblanc, which is north of Montreal.

Uh and Willow, I think there's some parallels with just the architecture and that sort of golden age of track design in North America.

It was a good race, it was a lot of fun.

11 little caveat to that.

Um The fact that it's an old track doesn't take into account just how massive the formula one procession has become.

Um They were, they were literally parking drivers, um, you know, across the water onto a grassy area that was like just covered in mud.

Um We watched them, you know, cross a little bridge and, and, you know, move into the, um into the paddock area um that it's, it's kind of undersized for what formula one currently is, which is a little unfortunate.

Um I mean, it is what it is like.

Formula One is growing in popularity, the number of fans that are coming, the number of like um side events there was, um, there was uh Porsche circuits there or not circuits, um, uh feeder races, there were Ferrari races to go along with it.

Um, just a lot going on and they are very size constrained because it is technically on an island.

Um, so there's not really much that they can do about it.

Um, so, you know, and I don't think they're gonna pull Montreal off the, the calendar anytime soon.

Um, but that does present some challenges that you don't face in some of the more, um, some of the newer, more, uh, specifically race designed or current formula one racing design circuits.

There was that issue, uh, on a Friday practice, Jeremy.

I don't know if you got caught up with it where, uh, because of the rain, uh, the, there ended up being a ton of fans that got turned away at the bridge, uh, trying to cross onto the island, uh, officers and just race race, security folks were, were telling massive crowds of people that it was, it was delayed and then it was canceled and that you have to go home and go back.

Um, and obviously practice was not canceled.

Um, you know, And, uh, but no, I, I was, I was reading online that there were a lot of, uh, angry race fans out there that had obviously bought tickets and, you know, then that, and then they didn't get to go see, practice on Friday.

Yeah, that's correct.

There was also a climate protest, um, that, that caused, um, a bit of a problem.

I did see a lot of people just parking, um, you know, when they were told that they, that they couldn't drive through, you can walk through.

Um, so I saw some people, um, parking really far away and walking in and I can tell you on race day, there were crowds there before the days, the day opened to avoid any potential for missing the actual, on track action on race day.

Um, it's, it's a difficult proposition to say, well, you got to get up at eight o'clock in the morning and be in line by nine o'clock if you want to watch the race at two.

that's kind of a difficult thing to tell people, but I can tell you that a lot of people were doing exactly that, um, to avoid exactly what you're describing.

Yeah.

II, I probably would have done that myself.

Like it was like the best race of the year to watch on TV.

At least for me it was spectacular.

I got there an hour and a half before, um, we were allowed into our area and um, several of us were just hanging out under a awning on some concrete steps until, um, we were allowed to actually go in.

Um, and if that's what it takes to watch such a great race, then that's what I'm gonna do.

All right.

Reminds me a little bit.

Speaking of circuits, uh, of the Bell Isle Track, uh, where the Indy cars used to run here in Detroit when you look at just the layout of, uh where they currently have Villa New in Montreal.

They, uh you know, we'll say like, like you guys both said, I don't think I ever see them dropping the Canadian Grand Prix in the near term, but they've got some issues to iron out.

Um, for sure.

I, I think we're gonna see them helicoptering drivers in, um, in, in short order.

They're, they're gonna have to put a helipad in or something like that.

And, you know, I, I don't know exactly how it's all gonna work out but they're gonna have to start being creative.

Um As the, you know, the spectacle continues growing.

Um just, just due to size constraints.

All right.

So let's just real briefly talk about the Indy car race here in Detroit.

Um Just a really good experience.

Uh It's, I think they've, they moved it from the island to the streets of downtown Detroit.

So you get like the Renaissance Setter is the background.

The fans are just on top of the action which I think is really exciting.

This was uh the first weekend of June.

So Indy Car fans were not red digesting the race but, um just a really cool experience and I think it shows what Indy Car can actually do for cities, uh especially a city like, you know, Detroit in the Midwest where people are really into cars.

I don't think people are necessarily die hard indie fans around here.

But when you bring an event like that to the city, obvious, obviously, it has great economic impact and people really get into it.

People really showed up for it.

Uh I thought it was a great experience, so it was good to see you, Zach.

You know, what, what did you think?

Yeah.

No, the, I mean, when you said right off the top there about like the fans being on top of the action, uh, like literally lining the all of the parking garages around the track, which I honestly think were some of the best places to watch from.

Uh, you can see the cars from above multiple corners.

Um I know that we were sitting in the, uh, in the front straight there so we can see all the pit stops, which is a, a genuinely cool sort of pit lane.

That's not normally something that you would, you would analyze, but it's, it's like a, a two lane, pit lane almost.

So they, they pull up to the left and the right and then they have to merge into the middle.

Uh So if you have like 10 or 15 cars coming in at once, then they have like 10 or 15 cars trying to leave at the same time and it can get a little dicey uh when they're both trying to merge into the same spot and peel out.

Um So that, that, that, that makes for some fun watching for, for folks right there on the front straight.

Um But yeah, man, just seeing indie cars running through the city, um, you know, really makes me think back like what was, what were the F one races like out here on the, on the streets of Detroit?

Um Listening to those cars, the, the, uh, Indy Car V Sixes echo off, off the buildings.

Um It's, it's, it's special and it, it, it, it feels special.

Um, the racing itself, uh, cat, I, I think we had like nine or 10 full course cautions.

I felt like the pace car was actually like leading more laps than anyone on the actual track was, um, which was a little disappointing.

Um, I know that the first one was not like that.

Um, but we had rain and the drivers just seemed a little more aggressive than normal, uh, going in the corners, um, trying to go three wide, four wide and, uh, yeah, led to a lot of accidents.

So hopefully next year there's a few fewer cautions.

Um, but Uh, yeah, no great events.

And I really hope that, uh, they just keep racing on, on, on the streets of Detroit.

Yeah, I agree.

It was, uh, it was very entertaining.

Uh, I think everybody, you know, everybody had a good time and Scott Dixon, of course, was the winner if you somehow missed that in the last, uh, last couple of weeks.

But, um, it's definitely become a good event for Detroit.

So, all right, I think we've hit it the almost hour and 15 minutes show.

Uh Thanks for hanging out guys.

Uh Thank you all for listening.

Um Happy Birthday to Auto Blog again.

This is our 20th anniversary.

You know, we, we try to do this pretty well.

We hope you guys enjoy what we do here.

Uh If you enjoyed the show, please give us five stars on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get the show, we'd love to spend your money.

That's podcast at Auto blog.com.

Be safe up there and we'll see you next week.